Way Oil

I have used the search and also did a google on this, there seems to be a lot of different ideas. So just to be safe.
I have a SB 10-k
the lube chart gives
type A -100 sec. which I found out was #6 or #7 spindle oil.
Type B - the I was told the 150 -240 (240) was #30 weight
Type C -and the 250 to 500 I don't know.
I found the #6 spinle oil , I think that is vs0#10 , and I think the vacarra is the way oil
but I can't seem to get what the #30 weight is or the 250 to 500 sec.
I want to order them all together, for shipping, I looked at msc and enco, but it seemed a little confusing with there numbers and what I was given to look for.
I hate being so dumb on this but I just have never dealt with this stuff, and the jargon is strange to me. I don't want to move things around or start it up before I clean and put oil in and on it. I don't know the last time it was lubed, or used. thanks for any help on this.

I use straight 30wt non detergent oil from wally mart for my way oil. 99 cents a quart...Bob

thanks bob that helps put it together for me better.

My two cents:
I can't imagine using straight 30-weight oil in place of way oil -- it just won't stay in place for me. I like the tackiness of the formulated way oil. It coats the ways and dovetails nicely, and makes things glide like butter.
Also, I find the ISO 68 grade to be piss-thin for machine slides, and highly recommend the ISO 220.
Enco #505-1993 for the TruEdge brand
Enco #505-1989 for Vactra No. 4
Paula

My 3/4 cent: if you want to save some dough and not have to look too far for it, chainsaw bar lube from the hardware store is cheap by the gallon, is slick like STP and sticks to the ways like glue. I'm using it on my 10K with good results.
Blob

thanks I placed an order tonight. Hopefully I can get things going by this weekend!

Hi Kevin, it's brockley1 I use chain saw oil too. If it sticks to a whirling chain saw it will stick to anything. Once a week I will clean the ways with WD 40 and wipe dry and relube with the chain oil. Super slick and a great way protector How's the fiddling? Peter

How about Vactra #2 or Vacuoline 1409, you know the stuff designed for your ways?
30wt and Bar oil, geesh...

similar idea to chainsaw chain oil is bicycle oil like Phil's extra tenacious. The thing about bicycle oil is that it is designed for the oil phoebic so generally has reduced odor etc... just in case you are sharing the space. Nice thing about chainsaw oil is that it is available in several weights.

Isn'y way oil engineered to meet very high pressures though? Somewhere on this site the numbers are given. I don't think other lubes are going to perform as they should. Might not matter on these smaller machines though....
I opt for piece of mind. A lifetime jug of vactra isn't that much money (Phil's would be way more per quantity, and I think it stinks more than Vactra.. it's also dark green, so you can't see contamination as easily).
bb

i have an old 9A that i used engine oil on the ways, thought it was good enough. now that i have a better lathe with the SB13 i thought i would anti up and get some way oil, got the true edge ( iso 68 ) i think, WHAT A DIFFERENCE ! this stuff sticks to the ways so much better than oil. a gallon of the stuff is like $20. cheep insurance if you ask me. will only use way oil from now on.

The vacuoline 1409 sticks even better to the ways. It is the orginal formula for Vactra where they still had the tactifers. Modern VACTRA 2 is designed for square way machines.
A bucket of 5 gals of Vacuoline is $45 here. Use it for my lathe, mill, and tool grinder.

"Phil's would be way more per quantity"
I already have it and just about any neighbourhood will sell bike oil, in volume if you want. That's my problem, getting stuff in Canada. I have the spec spindle oil thanks to a guy who ponied up for a drum.

I'm using a nice sticky Penrite brand Limited Slip Diff oil on the slides on my SB9 and it seems to work very well on the old abused ways on my machine. Very smoothe movement of the slides and it seems to cling to gear teeth pretty well too.
For the spindle I'm using Houghton Hydraulic oil my boss gave me when we moved shop (lable from the old style steel 20L drum is gone but its good quality stuff) which transfers through the wicks quite efficiently and allows the spindle to run cool and smooth.

Hi There,
The chart is very pretty BUT all the South Bend Lathe literature I have seen
specifically warns against using motor or "crankcase" oils on their lathes. There are
lubrication charts that were produced by South Bend Lathe showing all the lubrication
points and proper oils to use. I am surprised that there isn't a copy of it on the web
somewhere.
I posted this a long time ago:
South bend Lathes use three types of oil. The lubrication chart refers to them as A, B and C. These oils were rated by the old Saybolt viscosity system (Saybolt Universal Seconds {SUS}). Most oils today are rated by SAE or ISO systems. This is how it breaks down:
A - 100 SUS @ 100 Deg. F - ISO 22,
B - 150 to 240 SUS @ 100 Deg. F - ISO 32 to 50 or SAE 10 to 20 (20 is the better choice),
C - 250 to 500 SUS @ 100 Deg. F - ISO 55 to 100 or SAE 20 to 30 (30 is the better choice).
South Bend Lathes recommends NOT using motor oils. They contain additives that can prove harmful to the machine over the long run. Use only high grade machine oils. I use Mobil Oils as follows:
A - Mobil Velocite Spindle Oil No. 10,
B - Mobil DTE Hydraulic Oil 25 or DTE Machine/Turbine Medium Heavy,
C - Mobil Vactra Way Oil No. 2.
Mobil machine oils can be ordered from McMaster-Carr or MSC or a number of other good supply houses. Of course, there are other equivalents made by other oil companies.
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

Quote
"I am surprised that there isn't a copy of it on the web somewhere."
There is:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/grou...dmanual/files/
Has several Charts.
"Lubrication Chart for Heavy 10 from Sandy Khalili.pdf
Sandy K's Lub Chart for the 10L, 13, 141/2, 16 & 16/24 " is the latest one.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/grou...dlathe2/files/
Is the official SB "How to Do It" instructions.
Jim B

Personally, I never saw the economy in using the improper oil. The gas you burn to go pick up your NEXT lathe because you prematurely ran yours into the ground will be far greater than a few pennies saved here and there.
I bet this has been brought up 100 times on this board over the past 5 years, so a search does get pretty cluttered. In a way, we have too many choices! I know when I researced this topic the options were so bewildering they gave me a headache.
I use a Chevron turbine oil and a couple of grades of vectrax. They meet the specs of my machines and have done a good job of keeping things slippery.


...all the South Bend Lathe literature I have seen specifically warns against using motor or "crankcase" oils on their lathes... There are lubrication charts that were produced by South Bend Lathe showing the... proper oils to use... South Bend Lathes recommends NOT using motor oils.

Thanks for posting the info, but the chart I think you are referring to does indeed specify the proper grade of machine oil, per SB recommendations. It very clearly advises using non-detergent engine oil "only if no other oil is available". I don't know about you, but I would much rather have a lathe where the previous owner used non-detergent engine oil, of the proper weight, at frequent intervals, rather than having used no oil at all.
Paula

I don't know about you, but I would much rather have a lathe where the previous owner used non-detergent engine oil, of the proper weight, at frequent intervals, rather than having used no oil at all.
Paula

Hear! Hear! I think there's a tendency to get overwrought about which oil is the "proper" oil. Even though it's wise to use the recommended machine oils, any oil is way better than no oil. Even motor oil. :-)
Blob

Earlier in this thread, I advocated using chainsaw bar lube for way oil, but I take it back. After reading some of the comments in this thread I decided to buy some real way oil, and I have to say that it makes a big difference, at least on my 10K - the carriage slides much smoother on the ways with the proper oil, and just as the ad says it virtually eliminates "stick-slip". The bar oil stays on the ways pretty well, but does not measure up in performance.
I bought a gallon of Mobil Vactra No. 2 (ISO VG 68) from Enco on sale for less than 20 bucks, and it was money well spent. From now on, I'll be saving my bar oil for my chainsaw. :-)
Live and learn.
Blob

What Web Wyman wrote was what you are looking for.
His advice is to be read and noted.
Many of us struggle with the translation of the "old" Saybolt SUS oil classification system to the new ISO system and we get distracted by the SAE automotive standard as well.
There is a chart somewhare on the web giving the SUS,SAE,ISO equivalents but I cannot find it right now.
My own efforts into this have yielded the following notes -
South Bend lube chart call-out
-------------------------------------------------
Type A - Saybolt 100 (ISO 22)
- e.g. "Mobil Velocite Spindle bearing Oil No. 10"
- for lathe spindle
Type B - Saybolt 150-240 (ISO 32 - 46)
- e.g. "Turbine Oil, SAE 10W to SAE 15"
- for lathe apron clutch
Type C - Saybolt 250-500 (ISO 68)
- e.g. "non-detergent machine oil, SAE 20"
- for oilers
Way Oil - Saybolt 325 (ISO 68)
- e.g. "Way Lubricant, ISO 68 / SAE 20"
- Mobil Vactra #2 ISO 100
You can reasonably consolidate Type B with Type C and use an ISO 68 or 100 here.
Finally I will pass on this sage advice - "Any type of oil at all is better than no oil". ;-)
This is only for us sticklers although I would strongly suggest you stick with spindle oil on the spindle and "any oil" on the other places.
Regards
Dean

Dunno what it is about oil, any group that uses any kind of oil for any purpose seems to engage in endless internet discussions
The more I read sometimes the confuseder I get.
Here's a link to another viewpoint:
http://yarchive.net/metal/way_oil.html

Here is the equivilent chart from South Bend.
I had posted this on the Yahoo southbendmanual group some time ago.
IMAGE(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/2420151724_004dc56956.jpg?v=0)
I believe that SB new what they were doing.
Now a lot of water has gone over the Dam since then but this is the place to start
Jim B

years ago, i called south bend lathe's parts and service dep't, and this is what i was
told: use velocite#10 for the spindle , and vactra #2 for the ways and everything else.
sadly , i wish i could boast "yes , of course i'm using Warrior Oil "
or... "ya'know ...i wish i had more of this sentry oil...."
but mobil's stuff is all i can get.

What? No Cities Service or Sinclair stations in your neighborhood?
IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/haplesspeanut/CITIES.jpg)
IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/haplesspeanut/SINCLAIR.jpg)

i questioned my sinclair dino bank about this.....he apologized that they no longer make the lubricants
i asked for , but assured me that they would have some handy for the 1958 world's fair in
Brussels....

I have to confess, as I belong to ?Oilcoholics anonymous? that I have been using Valvoline 10-30 motor oil or equivalent on my ?46 SB 9A lathe ways for the 42 years since I purchased it used. The lathe is used for hobby work and the ways are periodically wiped down with motor oil and they look just great and still have the scrape marks.
When I bought it, I purchased a gallon of Mobil Velocite Spindle Oil No. 10 for the spindle and have used it regularly so I am in good shape there. During the last few days I have been cleaning and painting ?Momma Bear? nicknamed for being the middle size of my three lathes. I noticed, possibly for the first time, that the lubrication plate on the gear change cover says not to use motor oil, oops!
I took the headstock apart because I wanted to be sure that the felt pads were OK and they were. The spindle bearings are perfect.
I plan to stay with the current practice of using motor oil since it has worked for 42 years, but I realize that if I were using the lathe for production work, I would reconsider. I suspect that ?motor oil? today is better than what was available in ?46 which is coincidently the year that the last O?Brian brother passed away.
Best regards, Jack

What? No Cities Service or Sinclair stations in your neighborhood?

Sinclair pulled out of Ohio in 1968 or so with the merger with Atlantic Richfield, no Cities Service either...Bob


Sinclair pulled out of Ohio in 1968 or so with the merger with Atlantic Richfield, no Cities Service either...Bob

You're kidding! What about Pure? ("You can be sure with Pure")

You're kidding! What about Pure? ("You can be sure with Pure")

Nope...This is Marathon country around here. There is a little lube oil refinery in Newell VWa about 30 miles south of me. They make Wolfs Head, Pennzoil, the Shell brand and Quaker State products. Marathon only makes the gasoline diesel and road tar, just about all the big name stations are gone they are just big name mom and pop stations and Marathon supplys them all.
Quaker State, Gulf, Sunoco, BP, Texaco, Humble, Sinclair, ARCO, Atlantic Richfield, Ashland, American, all gone from this area. Speedway and Marathon have 90% of the big names with a Shell that uses Marathon gas. Citgo pulled out of Ohio a few years ago and they are all Marathons...Bob

IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/haplesspeanut/Smilies1/Sing.gif)
"You can trust your car to the man who wears the star... the big, bright
TEXACO STAR
!"

will that be FireChief or SkyChief?

Esso... I alway Put a Tiger in my Tank.

Also, I find the ISO 68 grade to be piss-thin for machine slides, and highly recommend the ISO 220.

I had read this and mentioned to Turk in some email, he also confirmed that the No 4 works better on the old machines...but I have No 2 which I got to use on my Nichols.
Aside from being thinner and not lasting as long possibly, isn't Vactra No 2 and Vactra No 4 pretty close? I'm gonna use the No 2 as I have it, it's gotta be better than using motor oil. I also have DTE Heavy/Med and No 10 Spindle oil, both from Mobil, and those are the 3 I will use on my 9A. Help me if I destroy it, but it is only a machine after all...can always get another one if I wear this one out...

Try the Vacuoline mentioned in previous posts. It has the tactifers that are missing in modern versions of Vactra #2. It sticks to the ways real well.

macona,
What I was trying to figure out is if the Vactra No 2 I have for the ways on my Nichols would be ok, even given that it is a bit thin, for the South Bend?
As it is I have 3 gallons of oil and wasn't anxious to buy another gallon, so been planning to use it. It's not really the cost, it's the space and/or storage of it also. I can always change up with little ramification, after all it's on the ways not in the spindle.

The vactra would be perfect. The #4 would be a little thick I think. I use the Vacuoline in my Monarch 10EE which is equivalent to the Vactra. Until I got this jug of Vacuoline I was useing regular vactra #2 and it works fine.

points and proper oils to use. I am surprised that there isn't a copy of it on
A - Mobil Velocite Spindle Oil No. 10,
B - Mobil DTE Hydraulic Oil 25 or DTE Machine/Turbine Medium Heavy,
C - Mobil Vactra Way Oil No. 2.
Webb

OK to get this right, i have a 31 sb n seris lathe with no oiling chart.
A - for spindle only
B - for all other oilers
C - for the Ways and cross slides
Do i need grease or to oil the QCGB and LEft side of headstock gears?
Thanks
FortyTwo

If you read the oiling chart for the SB 9" (what I have) then the one above isn't really right. There are 4 oils that South Bend wants you to use:
A
B
C
Way Oil
I think the A is accurate as listed. B should be DTE Light. C should be DTE Med/Heavy. I bought the #4 way oil from Mobil.
It looks like C and Way Oil can be the same, but the Way Oil has tackifiers that make it stick better.
My Quick Change Gear Box has a single oil port on the top. It looks like there are felt wicks that pulls the oil into the shafts. I haven't pulled it apart to see if they are in good shape.
This is the oil chart that I printed out to hang next to my lathe:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8H0cSOU...10K_Oiling.pdf
You need to be a member of the southbendmanual group on yahoogroups to see it.

Today i talked to a machine shop. They reccomended running way oil everywhere except the spindle. Their reasoning is it is alot easier and cheaper than having 4 oils. also the tackiness helps when i am not using it daily. I might just do this to get my lathe working again.
Your thoughts?
FortyTwo

Right or wrong, I do the same thing in a few areas that tend to lose oil rather quickly, like the carriage handwheel bearing, and leadscrew bearing. I also use way oil on the back gears and end gears.
Paula

I switched to synthetic Mobil 1 motor oil on my South Bend years ago. I use a heavy weight for the ways, tailstock and carriage, and a lighter weight for the spindle. For the open gears I use Amsoil fifth wheel synthetic grease which is white and not as messy as the black open gear lube.

Always use the best and you will never be disapointed. We have all chosen an expensive hobby/profesion why would you want to use anything other than the best! (true way oil and turbine oil for the spindle)
I also used motor oil for the first few years after i first got my lathe but after spending 3 months of nights and weekends scraping and powdercoating I want it to last the rest of my life and half of someone elses. Had i worked the equilivent OT of what i spent on this lathe i could have bought 2 chineese lathes, But this is a labor of love as i am sure it is for most of you. DON'T SKIMP ON THE IMPORTANT STUFF!

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